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I will say I personally think there's a place for both, personally the layout ive planned works both of those aspects together.

@@Sigil_Firebrand Agreed!

Yes, that is what I get. Thank you

That is a true statement, Warren. My wonderful Michelle is the best part.

😂😂😂

Hi Phil, It was a fun day out and something to share with the missus. cheers, Rob

All true. Point to point is prototypical. Roundy round is for folks like me. There is room for everyone in this hobby. Thank you

Depends what you want out of your model railroad. If you like switching, then point-to-point is great. But if you want to watch the trains go around -- which a lot of people do -- you need a continuous loop of some sort. Having said that, I do think a lot of people approach their first layout design by starting with a loop, making it "interesting" (i.e., convoluted) and then adding sidings and stuff, not realising that there's any other way.

@@beeble2003 Good comment, agreed, thank you for contributing to the community discussion. There is not a correct notion of correctness to follow after all. Everyone doesn't have to conform to the switching layout concept, and many point-to-point layouts have a path for continuous running in a loop. This hobby is big enough for everyone. cheers, Rob

Ah yes, The Santa Fe high level cars. It was brilliant of them to come up with that idea. Hand made trees using these methods yields trees that can stand alone and have a commanding presence. Thank you, Rob

Hi John, I also enjoy solving things like this, as though you didn't already know that. Trial and error has limits. Some do become paralyzed at the planning stage and only plan, never build. Planning is just a part of building for me. You plan till you are confident you have reached a reasonable conclusion that is defensible and move to the next step. In the beginning, on F1, I was experimenting to find the limits. F2 is the conclusion of that experimentation and resolution. I also read a great deal during those times. cheers, mate, thanks for the lovely comment, Rob

Hello, John. O scale, 1:48. That is a large scale. Your layout sounds interesting. I did not see any videos on your YT page. I like to take a look at what viewers are doing when I can. Your comment is an interesting and thoughtful one, thank you, cheers, Rob

It is an odd coincidence. cheers, Rob

Hi Gene, thank you. I hope someone can benefit from my ramblings. cheers, Rob

Hi Vincent, I can see you are passionate about model railways. Many folks miss the simplicity of converting from the real world to the scale world. Having spent many years on the drafting board (back in the dark ages of pencil and vellum), I understand scale and conversion very well. Another thing folks seemingly misunderstand is that engineering principles are not suggestions. Thank you for your thoughtful contributive comment. cheers, Rob

@@FarlandHowe dear Rob, definitely like and appreciate that one: “engineering principles are not suggestions.” I have been searching for one with similar depth, will put it on the ‘hard drive’ and put it to fair use! Cheerio

@@vincenthuying98 The problem represented by that statement has been around since engineered systems began. People new to the discipline all too frequently think that the principles that are known by experienced people or are published in books are somehow not concrete and for their convenience and because it is easier to try to cheat on them. It "never" works out well. cheers

That is a nice response. Thank you

I am starting to think it really is the greatest hobby. Art, engineering, electrical, electronics, model building, at any depth you want to take it. Thank you, Rob

That is perfect isn’t it. Thank you, cheers, Rob

Planning can tell you what will not fit in the space as well as what will. Experimentation is good, but simulating a long train and the friction that varies with each wheel set, each irregularity in the rail and track bed is harder. It sounds like you’ve done a careful and honest job of planning your layout. I am sure your layout is a success and does what you expect. I find the planning to be at least as satisfying as building the final result. Thank you for the great and well considered comment. Rob

@@FarlandHowe It's worth noting that the planning for version 4 was similar and only failed when trains were running on the first set of grades laid down. Four Superliner Cars were involved with object lesson and figured in the testing that followed. The current plan took that into account but I still had to dismantle v 4 to correct the issues. Something I have called "success Oriented Planning" at work! I'm still learning after 60 years of 'playing with trains"! I am a firm believer in Harrigan's Corollary to Murphy's Law: "Murphy was an optimist!"

@@Rayinn-lw3ejThat bit about Murphy is spot on. 😄

That makes it worth doing, thank you. Rob

Hi David, It is nice to hear from you. Do you think they start building bridges, ships or skyscrapers without massive planning? I admit, I spent years on a drafting board planning dynamic systems. It is a skill but effective planning has its foundation in true to scale representations on paper or 3D models. If the representation is not true to scale and proportional it will not solve the puzzle. Thank you, Rob

Thank you, slow and steady. There is no race.

So true Rob, it can take a long time before you really get a picture of what works on a larger layout like this.The old P^4 = perfect planning prevents poor performance. It pays to list/ identify what excites/ pleases you and must have features as well as min radius, reach distances, viewing height, maximum incline etc. Do some mock ups if not sure. Then list the dislikes or must avoids. Also looking at other folks layouts to review against and get new ideas. It’s taken me eight years to design mine, paper sketches first then to CAD to get honest dimensions and view in 3D (mocked up all my buildings etc as I built a sample of each but in CAD can so easily copy multiple times) to see what it looks like. This certainly has worked well for a larger project , particularly because I do not want to rework mine. The baseboards were 3 months of hard work back in 2020 and my lighting for it evolved over a few years. Sure it’s not everyone’s approach nor might be considered appropriate for a smaller layout. Great to see you got what you wanted, just look at how engrossed you are in it too! all the best Stephen

@@stephenpike3147No matter what size, planning is appropriate. Each railway is very personal to the owner. That individual railway identity is the best part. Thank you, Stephen

Thank you. It certainly is. Rob

Hi Mark, Thank you, The El Capitan was a great named train and Kato does a fab job of modeling it. It's interesting how your set took a roundabout trip back to you. I have wanted this one since I got the Santa Fe Chief a couple years ago. It runs very well, as I would expect from Kato. cheers, Rob

Hi Stephen, Thank you. The design for my signal heads and signal bridges has evolved as my skills have improved, and I have discovered better materials and developed better ideas and methods. Hopefully, I am almost there. I sometimes like to use my Wi-Fi-equipped onboard camera as my eyes, and I drive the train from the screen on my phone. You see the line as a driver would see it when you do that. As a result, it forces your attention to viewability and, with a second train running ahead on the same line, signal function. With as many signals as I have and the way they are connected to sensors and control circuits, I needed names and a record of how I set them up. Otherwise, I forget how they work, where they are, and what they are connected to, and have to do forensic engineering to figure it out again if they need attention. Putting master name tags next to all related devices is the biggest help. That thing about doing it once...the problem with that is one finds making changes advantageous at times. I have wanted to shoot up under the bridge since I built it to see a train crossing it. ;-) Rob

@@FarlandHowe Hi Rob, yes I like the extra detail you have added e.g. handrails, ladders, safety cage and the gusset plates which all add interest - same applied to the bridge - it brings it to life. That’s a great way to enjoy driving your trains and I see more UA-camrs using them for content, it’s certainly a different perspective and interesting too. Saw a wifi camera some 8 years ago built into the RTR engine, but the cost then was ridiculous. Using mnemonics combined with your signal diagrams is a great way to help you recognise what is what. I wrote a lot of industrial PLC programmes and used mnemonics to identify what each bit represented, it made it so easy to relate to particularly when dealing with over a thousand in some instances, made very few mistakes as a result. For my main signals I am using a couple of SIGM20 colour light signal controllers with block detection and some point status reporting which will trigger the signal transitions running over Loconet. The SIGM20 also allow reverse operation on my goods line which is a bonus. For the ground signals I plan to have a separate status mimic with LEDs to reflect what the ground signals are set to (acts as a signalman) , they will mostly be set using my hand controllers either individually or as part of a route - like you the diagrams are essential for enjoyable and hassle free operation - I hope! The way I am going just thought adding the wifi camera could mean there is a train driver, responding to a separate signalman’s commands and timetable/ sequence of operations - fun for family and friends…. It’s a limitless hobby and never been a better time to enjoy all this technology and parts/ adhesives for building our models. All the best Stephen

@@stephenpike3147 Aha, that explains your technical proficiency. I did not program PLCs but I did write many sequence of operations documents which were used to create the PLC programs. What brand of PLC were you usually working with? This is very interesting. My working life was spent in packaging machinery where the systems and machines were all PLC controlled. I was deeply involved with jointed arm robots the last 5-7 years I worked.

@@FarlandHowe Goodness, that also explains your approach and methodology. You like me must have seen so much change in your industry technology, techniques and maths - all that multi axis positioning wow. I did not realise some folk specialized in sequence of ops alone. Which plcs? Suspect you must have used a lot of servos and stepper motors too. I started on SqD series 100, 300 and 500 (just over 1000 I/O) all for a specialized steel mill. Then SqD 400 and 500 moved to Toshiba their Ex250/500 system as three other large drive and control projects- all with dc drives at their core and part of my design remit. Had other smaller with Siemens and Mitsubishi, all using ladder logic and associated maths, digital and analogue I/O plus high speed counters as required. Good fun it was, challenging but never a dull moment. As a drives and motor control company we realised all these different PLCs were a bind and costly so developed our own distributed event driven logic system which was graphically programmed. It used noise immune fibre optic comms and was laden with all our own developed function blocks (simple to very complex) including state machines. Rarely after that did we need any more PLCs for our projects once that was fully established. So enjoyed my time using that kit, sadly it was dropped after approx 16/17 years of use. So now retired and model railways is a more relaxed way of working/ passing my time!! All the best Stephen

@@stephenpike3147 Huge changes in my industry. I started in 1978 and there was a complete revolution by 1997. We mostly used Rockwell Automation equipment. That was primarily what our US customers wanted. Honeywell purchased the company I worked for after I retired, so I expect they will use more of their equipment now. The robots could be any, but we usually used KUKA for our high-speed, high-throughput machines. They had the best software for the type of machines we were making, so it was easiest to get the best results. You can't write a good sequence of operations unless you understand how the programming would work. Early on, it was clear that no one would buy our creations unless they understood them. It was noticed when I went out with the salesman and could explain the proposed system to the customer that they were more likely to buy from us. Over time, I transitioned from pure engineering and design to pure sales. As I like to say, I started out in engineering but became a personality mechanic when I retired. I loved the work in the early years. It was towards the end I lost the enjoyment factor. By then, the numbers were getting very large and the pressure intense. A model railway is perfect. You can pursue whatever interests you as deeply as you want, be it art, mechanical engineering, electrical engineering, or electronics. cheers, Rob

Hello, Mike. Styrene is an amazing medium for creating models. I wish I had been exposed to it years ago. Anything imaginable can be created. Look at some of the examples on the Evergreen webpage. I have been wanting to make the under-bridge clip since the bridge went in. ;-) My pleasure. Thank you, Rob

Oophs, added this in the wrong place, my apologies, Just copied to the comments top thread. Hi Rob, nice job on the lights and “metal work”, your diffusers certainly work very well. I see you suspended and positioned correctly so viewable on LHS as approach each. Great to see that lovely bridge and scene again, a certainly the right decision to incorporate and enough room to film from literally “down under” , lol. Signal planning at that level of detail is good to see, done the same for all my ground signals and running line 2 to 4 aspects and associated controls, timely but enjoyable in doing, I only intend in installing and wiring it all once……All the best Stephen

This layout is 1:76.2 or 4 mm to the foot. I model in US n scale as well. Thank you, Rob

Absolutely stunning work Rob, they look as if they had been bought from a store, certainly not made at home. Well done sir! 👏👏👏. Cheers. Graham

@@GrahamFoulston Graham, Thank you, my friend. This was a very enjoyable build. I took my time and found improvements to my methods and material selection with each one, then I could go back and improve the previous ones. As I demonstrated with the before and after pictures, my earlier efforts of a few years ago were very toy-like. I was never happy with them compared to what I could see of the real thing. Even though I had to make compromises for strength and could not exactly miniaturize the prototype, I am happy with the result. cheers, Rob

I use a Run Cam HD FPV. It is WiFi enabled and displays the picture and is controlled from a smart phone. I can see what is is ‘seeing’. The recording can be stopped and started from the phone too. Good luck, Rob

@@FarlandHowe Thanks Rob!

Thank you for your comment, Rob

I was thinking about you, Ian. I decided I should check out your layout but couldn’t find any video from you. Where can I find your layout? Rob

Thank you, Susanne. Rob

I completely agree. With proper paint and thinners Point Zero performs very well. Thank you for watching and for your thoughtful comment, Rob

Thank you, much appreciated.

Hi Warren, at least I will be able to see what I’m doing. :-). That theoretically should help. I just need a new project now. Thank you

I could not find the exact link to where I bought this, but I added the exact description to the video description. I suggest you shop around for one, the prices vary considerably.

Hi Dan, Thank you. I am not sorry I took the time to build the bridge. There were times I thought I would never finish it, though. Talk to you soon, cheers, Rob

Hi Tony, I worried it would look like a hack job but it came out okay. Thank you….Rob

Thank you, I looked into building lattice girders. I could have done it. I worked out how they could be modeled but they would’ve been too tedious to scratch build. I settled on the girders. The vertical members are ‘T’ shapes. Stronger than bars. The completed bridge is quite stiff and if the load was spread out could no doubt support 4-5 bricks or more. American bridges are quite heavy until you examine ones like the Key bridge that got hit with a ship. Looking at a number of British bridges you would find them very interesting in their novelty. cheers, Rob

Hi Stephen, Thank you. A good layout needs plenty of stories. The three bridges do make a nice contrast. Thanks for pointing that out. I do like the through depression better than the blind canyon. I thought about having a bridge where this new one is while I was building the layout in the beginning. I just didn’t know what kind of bridge would fit. Sometimes just waiting for things to come to you is best. cheers, Rob

Hi David, I wouldn’t want to be in the cottage either. Too noisy and dirty I think. Actually, I didn’t show it in the video but the waterfall does have a stream coming out under the arched viaduct. The waterway can be traced back to the foot of the waterfall. The little pond that feeds the waterfall wouldn’t be there but for the railway. When the railway was first built, it stopped the flow of the spring out to sea in the other direction. 😃. In the steam days they needed the water for a water crane at the lower beach side station but now it is just a problem. Thank you, Rob

@@FarlandHowe I love the story and the rational.